Obama Leaves God out of Thanksgiving Speech, Riles Conservatives

Since when is the President obligated to acknowledge god? Especially on behalf of others?

Somebody ought to remind Obama (and his speechwriter) that when Americans sit down around a meal today and give thanks, they give thanks to God."

Says who? I don't give thanks to god. That's a personal matter and one which the President should not be involved in.

wanna bet had he mentioned god that the GOP already had a speech ready to attack Obama for abusing thanksgiving by blatantly campaigning during his thanksgiving speech.

If the President picks his nose, coughs or sneezes while speaking, republicans will find some way to complain about that and attempt to elude "he's not one of us" Well, I'm African American so who are they really talking to when they elude that sentiment? Republicans are about to find out it's not 2010 anymore and the rest of us should always remember 2010 and make sure a mistake like that never happens again, those that enjoyed the majority are truly today's minority and progressives from North to South, East to West should make sure their voices are heard, because failure to do so may ensure it will never be heard again. America needs to wake up and follow the example of Wisconsin, Ohio and OWS from coast to coast. They represent the voice of the PEOPLE......

Since when is the President obligated to acknowledge god? Especially on behalf of others?

Oh I don't know since the every first Thanksgiving message by Our Nation 1st President George Washington...Maybe? You ever read the First Thanksgiving address?

WHEREAS it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favour; and Whereas both Houses of Congress have, by their joint committee, requested me "to recommend to the people of the United States a DAY OF PUBLICK THANKSGIVING and PRAYER, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness:"

NOW THEREFORE, I do recommend and assign THURSDAY, the TWENTY-SIXTH DAY of NOVEMBER next, to be devoted by the people of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being who is the beneficent author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be; that we may then all unite in rendering unto Him our sincere and humble thanks for His kind care and protection of the people of this country previous to their becoming a nation; for the signal and manifold mercies and the favorable interpositions of His providence in the course and conclusion of the late war; for the great degree of tranquility, union, and plenty which we have since enjoyed;-- for the peaceable and rational manner in which we have been enable to establish Constitutions of government for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national one now lately instituted;-- for the civil and religious liberty with which we are blessed, and the means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful knowledge;-- and, in general, for all the great and various favours which He has been pleased to confer upon us.

http://media.fastclick.net/w/click.here?cid=354334&mid=660103&m=6&sid=7651&c=0&tp=8&forced_click=http%3a%2f%2finstoresnow.walmart.com/enhancedrendercontent_ektid90716.aspx%3FPOV%3Dholidaycards">

And also, that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations and beseech Him to pardon our national and other transgressions;-- to enable us all, whether in publick or private stations, to perform our several and relative duties properly and punctually; to render our National Government a blessing to all the people by constantly being a Government of wise, just, and constitutional laws, discreetly and faithfully executed and obeyed; to protect and guide all sovereigns and nations (especially such as have shewn kindness unto us); and to bless them with good governments, peace, and concord; to promote the knowledge and practice of true religion and virtue, and the increase of science among them and us; and, generally to grant unto all mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity as he alone knows to be best.

GIVEN under my hand, at the city of New-York, the third day of October, in the year of our Lord, one thousand seven hundred and eighty-nine.

You see our First President saw this nation in a much different way ... And If you were to take a few seconds and read it and then a few minutes or perhaps hours to try to understand it ... things that are sutule yet informative would stand out...

Such as when he says ... in the very First sentence ..

WHEREAS it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favour;

He opened his address with a thanks to GOD! and to say that Americans should "obey His will"

He Called it ..

DAY OF PUBLICK THANKSGIVING and PRAYER, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness:"

What a day of prayer to Almighty God? For affording the opportunity to establish our form of government... Now just how does that work with the No God help Theory?

Also notice how he referred to the States..

to be devoted by the people of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being who is the beneficent author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be; that we may then all unite in rendering unto Him our sincere and humble thanks for His kind care and protection of the people of this country previous to their becoming a nation;

Notice he said "of these States" President Washington knew they were a group of States under a Umbrella Federal Government...

He Thanked God for ....

for the peaceable and rational manner in which we have been enable to establish Constitutions of government for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national one now lately instituted;-- for the civil and religious liberty with which we are blessed, and the means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful knowledge;-- and, in general, for all the great and various favours which He has been pleased to confer upon us.

Now PLEASE one of you tell me how the Father of this country...The man that lead the Continental Army that won our freedom from England... That helped in getting the Constitution written...

Was so confused about this separation of Church and State thing... Being this Address was given in October of 1789 and the Bill of Rights had passed both houses of Congress by September of 1789...

So yep he knew all about the Bill of Rights and the 1st Amendment ... It wasn't the Law of the land as of yet (Ratified by 1791) but he knew what was in it and that it was most likely going to Ratified by the States.....

Again someone explain under the current beliefs of the Progressives should President George Washington be straightened out for making such comments?

If not then how do they have standing on so many of the things they say today?

If Washington was right and we owe God thanks... And its OK to ask the entire Nation to pray to God ... This could get complicated if the President can ask people to pray and Thank God... Then why can't a kid pray in a public school? Or why Can't a person ask people to pray at a High School Football game? Its a request not a demand... So it is Volunteered ...

Shall we Pray...as opposed to Pray now or else!

So tell me was the First President of the United States ...so wrong or have we drifted a bit off the path we were set on by our founders?

But someone Find me a President that has since the First President that Proclaimed a day of thanks and prayer to God ...That...

Gave a Thanksgiving address and Did not mention GOD before President Obama...

You know what? I don't care if you thank me. I don't care if you pray to me. I don't even care if you believe in me.

I only care about what you do. If you do good things for other people that pleases me. And if you do crappy things to other people that displeases me. Simple as that.

Since people like definitions, I'd say good things are things that answer other peoples' prayers. And crappy things are things that break the Golden Rule.

As for politicians, the ones on the take seem to thank me more often than the ones who aren't on the take. The worst of them thank me so often you'd think I was the guy paying them.

Jim44

#1.4- You wrote a lot of information but failed to answer the question .

" Since when is the President obligated to acknowledge god? Especially on behalf of others? "

The true answer is, The President isn't obligated at all. There is no law anywhere or constitutional provision stating the President is obligated to acknowledge GOD. No law or constitutional provision?, no obligation...... This includes ANY PRESIDENT... So if a President chose to leave GOD out of a speech he/she are within their rights to do so however President Obama always end each speech with GOD BLESS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.... Also, take a look at Magic Moose post #2. Take a look at it on the internet if you wish...

In actuality I believe we all need to thank God for everything from the air we breath to the food we eat and all in between. Without God we would have nothing so as for me and my house we will serve the Lord, and give Him thanks for all.

Well if you believe you should thank god, then do it, privately, but don't impose that dictum on the president and the rest of the nation.

Obama didn't thank God? Wow. That's really gonna hurt him with his right wing Christian base.

DAY OF PUBLICK

Spell check is free.

attention xtians ...

Thanksgiving is not a religious holiday. Get over it.

and a religious litmus test isn't needed for presidency. We'd be better off as a nation with clear separation .

Maybe Xtians should be revering Native American beliefs during Thanksgiving since if it wasn't for them the Europeans who came over wouldn't have survived.

George Washington also owned slaves.

What's your point?

What, CONservatives getting riled, for not hearing the name of their #2 enemy; we all know the name of their #1 enemy, don't we???

Then again, it doesn't take much to rile a rabid animal, does it? They are always ready to ATTACK, that's the way the disease thrives and spreads! The infected host is already DOOMED...

@#1.11

"Thanksgiving is not a relious holiday"

Well, I think EVERYDAY should be a religious holiday for true believers; but we all know the Religious Right Wingers are hypocrites, don't we??? Some are even trying to re-write thatr holy book, to better fit into their tempest size Tea Pot mentality...

Jim44, your premise is way off base, as usual,  there are no "laws" regarding thanking God on Thanksgiving, and you would trash Pres. Obama for whatever he said.  We all know where you stand on him and we don't appreciate you endless attacks on him, over your version of the founding of our nation. 

Give it a rest, just once.

so as for me and my house we will serve the Lord

I'm serving turkey and stuffing.

Then again, Obama might pull a Failin 'Pay-lin'; you know, lose and not GO AWAY! LOL. After all, what goes around, comes around;DOESN'T IT... I'd say, be careful what you wish for...

I wonder how thankful Native Americans are feeling about our Thanksgiving Day? This is why I ask whether Native Americans are Thankful on our Thanksgiving Day:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_Dance

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Here is our president's Thanksgiving proclamation that you can read and decide for yourselves about there is a 'proper amount of piety:

BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

A PROCLAMATION

One of our Nation's oldest and most cherished traditions, Thanksgiving Day brings us closer to our loved ones and invites us to reflect on the blessings that enrich our lives. The observance recalls the celebration of an autumn harvest centuries ago, when the Wampanoag tribe joined the Pilgrims at Plymouth Colony to share in the fruits of a bountiful season. The feast honored the Wampanoag for generously extending their knowledge of local game and agriculture to the Pilgrims, and today we renew our gratitude to all American Indians and Alaska Natives. We take this time to remember the ways that the First Americans have enriched our Nation's heritage, from their generosity centuries ago to the everyday contributions they make to all facets of American life. As we come together with friends, family, and neighbors to celebrate, let us set aside our daily concerns and give thanks for the providence bestowed upon us.

Though our traditions have evolved, the spirit of grace and humility at the heart of Thanksgiving has persisted through every chapter of our story. When President George Washington proclaimed our country's first Thanksgiving, he praised a generous and knowing God for shepherding our young Republic through its uncertain beginnings. Decades later, President Abraham Lincoln looked to the divine to protect those who had known the worst of civil war, and to restore the Nation "to the full enjoyment of peace, harmony, tranquility, and union."

In times of adversity and times of plenty, we have lifted our hearts by giving humble thanks for the blessings we have received and for those who bring meaning to our lives. Today, let us offer gratitude to our men and women in uniform for their many sacrifices, and keep in our thoughts the families who save an empty seat at the table for a loved one stationed in harm's way. And as members of our American family make do with less, let us rededicate ourselves to our friends and fellow citizens in need of a helping hand.

As we gather in our communities and in our homes, around the table or near the hearth, we give thanks to each other and to God for the many kindnesses and comforts that grace our lives. Let us pause to recount the simple gifts that sustain us, and resolve to pay them forward in the year to come.

NOW, THEREFORE, I, BARACK OBAMA, President of the United States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States, do hereby proclaim Thursday, November 24, 2011, as a National Day of Thanksgiving. I encourage the people of the United States to come together whether in our homes, places of worship, community centers, or any place of fellowship for friends and neighbors to give thanks for all we have received in the past year, to express appreciation to those whose lives enrich our own, and to share our bounty with others.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this sixteenth day of November, in the year of our Lord two thousand eleven, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and thirty-sixth.

BARACK OBAMA

Finally he mentions the reason the Pilgrims survived, in more than a passing note (still not enough). Native Americans! All those GOD fearing immigrants have done everything they can over the last 200+ years to wipe them out through war, pestilence, genocide, ethnic cleansing, etc.

In stead the GOD fearing just want to shop. It wasn't until 1863 that thanksgiving became a national holiday.

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2011/11/22/thanksgiving-a-native-american-view-64265?gclid=COf_zc7H1KwCFQyFQAodu1Jmrw

http://www.history.com/topics/thanksgiving

copy and paste links to your browser

Obama Leaves God out of Thanksgiving Speech, Riles Conservatives

I'm thinking about awarding a shiney new dime to anyone that can tell us what Obama ever did that didn't Rile the Conservitives!!!

I know! I know! I know.... No, forget it. Keep your dime.

Like I stated .... the Christian idea of God didn't take care of the 'pilgrims' ... the Native Americans did.

The Dark Historical Roots Of Our 'Thanksgiving'
Lest We Forget...

http://www.rense.com/general45/thanks.htm

the settlers stole

Wessagusset

http://www.daleyhistory.com/Lectures/Wessagusset/wesarticle.html

"Thanksgiving"- a National Day of Mourning

The REAL story of the "first" Thanksgiving

In December of 1620 a splinter group of England's Puritan movement set anchor on American soil, a land already inhabited by the Wampanoag Indians. Having been unprepared for the bitter cold weather, and arriving too late to grow an adequate food supply, nearly half of the 100 settlers did not survive the winter. ...

The Wampanoag already had a long history with the white man. For 100 years prior to the Pilgrim landing, they had encounters with European fishermen, as well as those who worked for slave traders. They had witnessed their communities being raided and their people stolen to be sold into slavery. They did not trust the newcomers....

........

Thanksgiving Today

For many Native American Indians of present day, the traditional "Thanksgiving" holiday is not recognized as the Pilgrim/Indian day popularized in children's history books; rather it is a day of sorrow and shame. Sorrow for the fallen lives of those who were lost so long ago, and shame for living in a country who honors people who used religion and self-righteousness to condone murder, treachery and slavery.

http://www.angelfire.com/biz2/turquoisebutterfly/thanksgiving.html

Hey Jim,

Washington was also a slave owner....should we also follow that example???

So barry isn't grateful to God for anything? No surprise here.

How about some proof that god has done anything to be thanked for...you can thank your magical sky fairy if you choose.

robynlewisTX.

Who is barry?

To right wing Republicans a black Christian is too strange and needs to be replaced with a white Mormon.

Prayer circle (Mormonism) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In Mormonism, a prayer circle, also known as the True Order of Prayer is a ritual established by Joseph Smith, Jr. that some Mormons believe is a more potent ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_circle_(Mormonism)

Can't you see next year if Romney were to win that he would be calling for the Mormon prayer circle.

I can just see all of the evangelicals getting in the circle reciting the Mormon Prayer Ritual.

Sorry, but this isn't a theocracy. No one needs to thank a god for us that many in this nation do not worship or believe in. If you believe in a god then you can thank him for yourself. You do not need your president to do so. He isn't your preacher.

In all fairness, "PUBLICK" was the manner in which the word was spelled in England and in America during the 18th century. Just ask DICK Cheney.

Ironically, the attacks on Obama came as the Republican White House hopefuls suspended their criticism of the president on Thursday in favor of a unified message of thanks to U.S. service members and their families.

Well, Thanksgiving is over. You can all go back to being suicide bombers now, praise God.

Jim44

And If you were to take a few seconds and read it and then a few minutes or perhaps hours to try to understand it ... things that are sutule yet informative would stand out...

Yes, indeed, Jim, why don't we look at some of those "sutule" (sic) things?

...and Whereas both Houses of Congress have, by their joint committee, requested me...

Well, look at that. Washington made it a point to mention that he was giving the speech at the request of Congress, and not by his own volition. Imagine that.

"to recommend to the people of the United States ... for their safety and happiness:"

Isn't it interesting that this portion should be retained in quotes? As if to emphasize that he is quoting someone else, and not using his own words.

Which, in itself, brings up a pertinent point: You do know that Washington did not actually write this speech, right? The credit belongs to Alexander Hamilton. The hand-written draft is in the Library of Congress, and is clearly in Hamilton's handwriting, not Washington's. :-)

Now, Washington was President for eight years, and yet, only two Thanksgiving proclamations were issued. What happened to the other six?

Oh, and the second proclamation? Read:

• When we review the calamities which afflict so many other nations, the present condition of the United States affords much matter of consolation and satisfaction. Our exemption hitherto from foreign war, an increasing prospect of the continuance of that exception, the great degree of internal tranquillity we have enjoyed, the recent confirmation of that tranquillity by the suppression of an insurrection which so wantonly threatened it, the happy course of our public affairs in general, the unexampled prosperity of all classes of our citizens, are circumstances which peculiarly mark our situation with indications of the Divine beneficence toward us. In such a state of things it is in an especial manner our duty as a people, with devout reverence and affectionate gratitude, to acknowledge our many and great obligations to Almighty God and to implore Him to continue and confirm the blessings we experience.
• Deeply penetrated with this sentiment, I, George Washington, President of the United States, do recommend to all religious societies and denominations, and to all persons whomsoever, within the United States to set apart and observe Thursday, the 19th day of February next as a day of public thanksgiving and prayer, and on that day to meet together and render their sincere and hearty thanks to the Great Ruler of Nations for the manifold and signal mercies which distinguish our lot as a nation, particularly for the possession of constitutions of government which united and by their union establish liberty with order; for the preservation of our peace, foreign and domestic; for the seasonable control which has been given to a spirit of disorder in the suppression of the late insurrection, and generally for the prosperous course of our affairs, public and private; and at the same time humbly and fervently to beseech the kind Author of these blessings graciously to prolong them to us; to imprint on our hearts a deep and solemn sense of our obligations to Him for them; to teach us rightly to estimate their immense value; to preserve us from the arrogance of prosperity, and from hazarding the advantages we enjoy by delusive pursuits; to dispose us to merit the continuance of His favors by not abusing them; by our gratitude for them, and by a correspondent conduct as citizens and men; to render this country more and more a safe and propitious asylum for the unfortunate of other countries; to extend among us true and useful knowledge; to diffuse and establish habits of sobriety, order, morality, and piety, and finally, to impart all the blessings we possess, or ask for ourselves, to the whole family of mankind.
• In testimony whereof I have caused the seal of the United States of America to be affixed to these presents, and signed the same with my hand.Done at the city of Philadelphia, the 1st day of January, 1795, and of the Independence of the United States of America the nineteenth.By the President

Gee, that's awfully tame in comparison to the first proclamation.

Was so confused about this separation of Church and State thing... Being this Address was given in October of 1789 and the Bill of Rights had passed both houses of Congress by September of 1789...

Absolutely! Under the Bill of Rights, a President has the full right to give a speech of personal expression, protected under both Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Speech.

Now, to imply that he was expressing a governmental interest WOULD have been a violation of the First Amendment. Imagine, if you will, if we had a Muslim President (regardless of likelihood, under the Constitution, it is feasible), would he/she be required to give thanks to the Christian God? (nope, compromising personal beliefs violates the First Amendment) Would he/she be forbidden from saying "Praise Allah?" (again, no, still a violation).

So it cannot even be implied that any personal expression must have government sanction.

And let's not forget what James Madison had to say about such proclamations in his Detached Memoranda:

• Religious proclamations by the Executive recommending thanksgivings & fasts are shoots from the same root with the legislative acts reviewed. Altho' recommendations only, they imply a religious agency, making no part of the trust delegated to political rulers.

And

• The members of a Govt as such can in no sense, be regarded as possessing an advisory trust from their Constituents in their religious capacities. They cannot form an ecclesiastical Assembly, Convocation, Council, or Synod, and as such issue decrees or injunctions addressed to the faith or the Consciences of the people. In their individual capacities, as distinct from their official station, they might unite in recommendations of any sort whatever, in the same manner as any other individuals might do. But then their recommendations ought to express the true character from which they emanate.

You should study the "sutule" implications of these texts as well. :-)

But someone Find me a President that has since the First President that Proclaimed a day of thanks and prayer to God ...That... Gave a Thanksgiving address and Did not mention GOD before President Obama...

I find it far more telling that sixteen out of forty-four Presidents chose to NOT give a Thanksgiving address of any kind. And the fact that from 1816 to 1861, no Thanksgiving proclamations were issued.

But you have successfully proved two things: 1) The various Presidents have generally addressed the majority of their constituents, and 2) The majority happened to be Christian.

But that is still not proof that the US is a Christian Nation. :-)

Regards

FTA:

Obama mentioned God once in a closing "God bless you," to Americans watching the Internet address. However, the President explicitly thanked God earlier in the week in his written Thanksgiving proclamation, which called the holiday "one of our nation's oldest and most cherished traditions," and an occasion that "brings us closer to our loved ones and invites us to reflect on the blessings that enrich our lives."

"As we gather in our communities and in our homes, around the table or near the hearth, we give thanks to each other and to God for the many kindnesses and comforts that grace our lives. Let us pause to recount the simple gifts that sustain us, and resolve to pay them forward in the year to come," Obama wrote.

Ironically, the attacks on Obama came as the Republican White House hopefuls suspended their criticism of the president on Thursday in favor of a unified message of thanks to U.S. service members and their families.

Three of the Republican presidential candidates – Mitt Romney, Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum – issued Thanksgiving statements that omitted any references to God. Michele Bachmann, Herman Cain and Rick Perry mentioned God in their statements.

Can the the extreme right wing please use what is left of their brain to think of a way to get over their hatred of President Obama ??

The Thanksgiving gathering I was a part of included atheists as well as Christians. We had people who believed and people who didn't. Guess what ??? We all got along fine, even when the prayer was said thanking God in the Name of Jesus Christ. Everybody ate, and everybody talked and everybody had a good time. We played games, we watched the kids put on little shows, we ate some more food, and we wished each other well.

And ya know what ?? Some of the people who were atheists were very conservative people, it didn't matter. They were included in the prayer, and they were fed, they were wished well and we talked together.

See to me it is not just what ya say, it is how ya live !!!

So barry isn't grateful to God for anything? No surprise here.

As we gather in our communities and in our homes, around the table or near the hearth, we give thanks to each other and to God for the many kindnesses and comforts that grace our lives. Let us pause to recount the simple gifts that sustain us, and resolve to pay them forward in the year to come.

NOW, THEREFORE, I, BARACK OBAMA, President of the United States of America, by virtue of the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States, do hereby proclaim Thursday, November 24, 2011, as a National Day of Thanksgiving. I encourage the people of the United States to come together whether in our homes, places of worship, community centers, or any place of fellowship for friends and neighbors to give thanks for all we have received in the past year, to express appreciation to those whose lives enrich our own, and to share our bounty with others.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this sixteenth day of November, in the year of our Lord two thousand eleven, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and thirty-sixth.

BARACK OBAMA

robynlewisTX if nothing else, please read the text in bold.

Proud Pagan:

That was really an excellent post. The self-appointed emissaries of God have now officially placed you on their watch list of undesirable elements. :-P

How could he forget who we give thanks to on thanksgivig? We give thanks and praise to Almighty God for hiis divine providence in our founding and our continued blessings.

Cornhusker4Palin maybe you should read the bold text in my post above also.

There is no law anywhere or constitutional provision stating the President is obligated to acknowledge GOD.

Very true statement ... not relevant but true.... You and so many others here are missing the bigger picture...

Our National holiday of Thanksgiving has nothing to do with the damn Pilgrims or the Indians... that's rewritten history ...

Our as a nation under our Constitution the First Thanksgiving was on Nov 24 1789 ...

And like it or not it was to Give thanks to God...

It was a day set aside by Congress and Proclaimed by our first President to Give thanks to God! That is a simple and clear fact! Although history tells us that settlers in our country had been celebrating A Thanksgiving festival long before that day!

http://www.covenantnews.com/thanks01.htm

Now back to you question ...

There is no law anywhere or constitutional provision stating the President is obligated to acknowledge GOD. No law or constitutional provision?

As I said Nope... Its just insulting to be addressing a holiday that was clearly started to give thanks to God (Superior being) and not mention God....

President Obama always end each speech with GOD BLESS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA..

Nope not this year .... READ !!!!

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/11/16/presidential-proclamation-thanksgiving-day-2011

Well if you believe you should thank god, then do it, privately, but don't impose that dictum on the president and the rest of the nation.

Its a National Holiday to give Thanks to God... You can like it or not but how about you respect your fellow Americans that believe... And know what the Holiday was originally instituted for!

Scott says ..

DAY OF PUBLICK

Spell check is free.

Not in 1789 ...That is a direct quote from Washington's original Proclamation... But I am sure you knew that ....(smiles)

http://www.leaderu.com/humanities/washington-thanksgiving-original.html

Sometimes its just better not to be snarky ...When you don't know the facts...Just saying !!!

Thanksgiving is not a religious holiday. Get over it.

News FLASH read the proclamation that created the Holiday ... Let me help you ...

WHEREAS it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favour; and Whereas both Houses of Congress have, by their joint committee, requested me "to recommend to the people of the United States a DAY OF PUBLICK THANKSGIVING and PRAYER, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness:"

Which part about of giving thanks to God .. Thanksgiving ....don't you get?

I wonder how thankful Native Americans are feeling about our Thanksgiving Day?

Oh... I don't know ...but one has nothing to do with the other ....So its not relevant to this seed and is off topic... The Holiday we celebrate as Thanksgiving has its roots even further back than the Pilgrims... However ...As a Nation our First Thanksgiving was in 1789.

How about some proof that god has done anything to be thanked for.

Prove God hasn't .... There, a great circular argument!

That was really an excellent post.

Thank you Adler315. :-)

The self-appointed emissaries of God have now officially placed you on their watch list of undesirable elements.

I have been on that list longer than some 'viners have been alive. Trust me on that.

Kindest regards

Jim44

There is no law anywhere or constitutional provision stating the President is obligated to acknowledge GOD.

Very true statement ... not relevant but true.... You and so many others here are missing the bigger picture...

Our National holiday of Thanksgiving has nothing to do with the damn Pilgrims or the Indians... that's rewritten history ...

_____________________________________________________________

The Pilgrims who sailed to this country aboard the Mayflower were originally members of the English Separatist Church (a Puritan sect). They had earlier fled their home in England and sailed to Holland (The Netherlands) to escape religious persecution. There, they enjoyed more religious tolerance, but they eventually became disenchanted with the Dutch way of life, thinking it ungodly. Seeking a better life, the Separatists negotiated with a London stock company to finance a pilgrimage to America. Most of those making the trip aboard the Mayflower were non-Separatists, but were hired to protect the company's interests. Only about one-third of the original colonists were Separatists.

The Pilgrims set ground at Plymouth Rock on December 11, 1620. Their first winter was devastating. At the beginning of the following fall, they had lost 46 of the original 102 who sailed on the Mayflower. But the harvest of 1621 was a bountiful one. And the remaining colonists decided to celebrate with a feast - including 91 natives who had helped the Pilgrims survive their first year. It is believed that the Pilgrims would not have made it through the year without the help of the natives. The feast was more of a traditional English harvest festival than a true "thanksgiving" observance. It lasted three days.

http://wilstar.com/holidays/thankstr.htm

this is the story as I know it, and many Americans know it. You may know it your way. You celebrate your way...the president and alot of us will celebrate it our way.

eplkidd

Your Right and I stand corrected ...

The President of the United States in his Proclamation of a day set aside for giving thanks to God ....Finally got around to his ONE reference to God in the 4th paragraph of his proclamation...

Says more about him! Than anything I have seen before in a president...

Here is an open question....

Do not any of you Progressives find it unusual that a man that is a professed Christian.. Acts this way on this day?

He professes to be a follower of Christ a believer in God...Yet on the Day set aside as a National Holiday to give thanks to God... He all but avoids the mention of the reason for the holiday?

I am sure some will attribute it to being accommodating to those that do not believe in a God... But I always question a man that is willing to compromise their core beliefs to make political points...

And please note... This is not in my mind a Christian holiday ... Its about belief in a Superior Being... Called GOD... For every religion or any believer in a higher power!

Jim44, the reason for this holiday is because a group of Native Americans invited a group of illegal immigrants to dinner and they never left. Just joking of course, but why is it that so many so called Christens seem to think that just because someone doesn't mention God in every other sentence that they are leaving him out of their lives? Doesn't the Bible tell us to prey and praise God in the privacy of our closets and not to make a show of our praise. The whole purpose of being a Christen, as I see it, is to live a life as a Christen and not to tell the world when we think someone else isn't.

First of all,
Thanks giving is not, and I repeat NOT a religious holiday.

Secondly,
The United States is a secular, and I repeat a SECULAR nation, not a Christian one.

While it may very well be a national holiday, it is up to each individual to celebrate as they personally see fit. It is not up to our President, or any other elected leader to lead us in prayer of any sort. If anyone has a divine deity of any kind and wishes to acknowledge said deity, then please feel free to do so. But please don't expect our President to break our Constitution to massage religious egos or the ego of any deity.

mikebank to robynlewisTX. @ #1.26:

Who is barry?

That's Barry Manilow, mike. He's been alive forever, and he wrote the very first song.

Fed up with Republicans @ #1.27:

I can just see all of the evangelicals getting in the circle reciting the Mormon Prayer Ritual.

Only if there is another Ice Age—gotta keep warm during the holidays.

elpkidd

Jim44, the reason for this holiday is because a group of Native Americans invited a group of illegal immigrants to dinner and they never left. Just joking of course,

Sadly you know its a joke ... Read the comments on this seed ... So many don't..

They can't explain why in the proclamation creating this National holiday they (pilgrims and Indians) are not mentioned only that thanks and prayers are to be given to GOD?

just because someone doesn't mention God in every other sentence

Come on you know that's not the issue ... Play fair or don't play!

Doesn't the Bible tell us to prey and praise God in the privacy of our closets

Yep the same Bible, about the same Jesus that tells us to become Fishers of Men and to spread the Gospel... I find it curious those that don't believe in God and call the Bible a work of fiction then want to use it as a weapon against Christians.. Kind of reminds me of ....

Rules for Radicals...Alinsky!

Rule 4: Make opponents live up to their own book of rules. “You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity.”

http://www.vcn.bc.ca/citizens-handbook/rules.htm

Ever notice how often this is used on the Vine ? Against Christians Just like Alinsky instructed!

Thanks giving is not, and I repeat NOT a religious holiday.

OK its a Holiday to give thanks to God ! Well at least to George Washington the President that following a request of Congress created it ...

Now you explain how a Holiday designed to Give Thanks to God is not a Religious Holiday..

The United States is a secular, and I repeat a SECULAR nation, not a Christian one.

Yep ... The word God is not exclusive to Christians ...So that argument doesn't fly ! But really nice try !

Says more about him!

Actually it says much more about you. He is the President of all the people and the right wing Christians are only a part. He mentions God that's good enough as it is not, no matter how you would like to make it such, a religious holiday. It's not holiday for a lot of people. Many people don't celebrate it in any way.

BTW we had over 200 people world wide working Thanksgiving, some holiday for them although they did get triple overtime for it.

It's a holiday designed to give thanks, to whomever, for a bountiful harvest nothing more. This is a secular nation not a Christian one. It is made up of a majority of Christians, although the majority of people don't practice it, and other minority religions. The word of God is exclusive to Christians, Jews, and Muslims. All the rest of the worlds religions either don't practice a religion or have other deities.

A little study of religion would do you wonders Jim.

We give thanks and praise to Almighty God for hiis divine providence in our founding and our continued blessings.

That's what you do. Many in this country do not do so and they do not need you to tell them who to give thanks to or what to give thanks for.

Doesn't the Bible tell us to prey [...]

Yes, I know it's an honest mistake—unfortunately, there are many fundamentalists and evangelicals who use the Bible to do that very thing.

*chuckles*

gosh I do love homonyms.

We give thanks and praise to Almighty God for hiis divine providence in our founding and our continued blessings.

That's what you do. Many in this country do not do so and they do not need you to tell them who to give thanks to or what to give thanks for.

Regardless of what some do with the day, it was set aside to give thanks to God by those founders who created the Holiday. No amount of denial and attempts to rewrite history can change that.

It might have been that way 50 years ago, it no long is. The right has to quit living in the past, don't you Cornhusker.

It was a day set aside by Congress and Proclaimed by our first President to Give thanks to God!

Ok, Jim, you've ignored my post, especially what I said here:

• But you have successfully proved two things: 1) The various Presidents have generally addressed the majority of their constituents, and 2) The majority happened to be Christian.

So let me drop a few more little facts for you to ignore: From 1990 to 2008, ARIS studies determined that the number of Atheists and other non-religious people almost doubled, from 8% to 15%. The number of people professing a religion of any kind dropped from 89.5% to 79.9%. Christians dropped from 86.2% to 76% (Protestants alone from 60% to 50.9%).

The point?

At this rate, by 2035-40, no one will care if the Christian God is mentioned or not. In fact, the Thanksgiving Proclamation may very well be "...whether you thank Almighty God, Praise Allah, or commune with the God & Goddess, today is dedicated to giving thanks to them all."

I pray that you live long enough to find out. :-)

Regards

The reason for Thanksgiving was to give thanks to God. You now it's all part of that inconvienient America was founded on Judeo Christian values thing.

jim;

Do not any of you Progressives find it unusual that a man that is a professed Christian.. Acts this way on this day?

one thing that we find coming from a professed christian more unusual in the way they act during this season and times is the hatred that one of them, you display toward another human being. you may claim to be a christian, but your acts do not display any such thing. before you complain about his speck, it might be helpful to remove your own beam.

If Obama did not mention God in his Thanksgiving speech, how come God did not get mad and smite him dead? Isn't He supposed to do that sort of thing? And if he did, it would at least show that conservatives have a point.

It was a day set aside by Congress and Proclaimed by our first President to Give thanks to God! That is a simple and clear fact! Although history tells us that settlers in our country had been celebrating A Thanksgiving festival long before that day!

Jim44, you said it yourself, Christians hijacked Thanksgiving as their own and made it a tribute to God just like they hijacked the motto and hijacked the pledge etc. Not an original thought among those Christians.

Let me think, if memory serves me correctly George Washington declared two (2) Thanksgivings the one in 1789 and another in 1795, Adams two, and Jefferson none. So, the declarations were sporadic - in fact, it really wasn't until this past century in 1941 that the date was set by law, imagine that.

As for me what am I thankful for - family, friends, neighbors, health, and good fortune.

Ok, Jim, you've ignored my post, especially what I said here:

Proud

First ..Please except my apology I did not intend to ignore you... We have had many discussions and I always find you a very intelligent and honest person to interact with... So it was not intentional... That said... OK

You said ...

Well, look at that. Washington made it a point to mention that he was giving the speech at the request of Congress, and not by his own volition. Imagine that.

Or I could look at it as ...He was demonstrating the support of Congress... Could I not... with the support of and not ONLY one his own volition..Thus not pressing his personal beliefs on the citizenry.. Just another way to look at the very same thing!

Isn't it interesting that this portion should be retained in quotes? As if to emphasize that he is quoting someone else, and not using his own words.

Well I am sure you will as you always do provide proof ...

You do know that Washington did not actually write this speech, right? The credit belongs to Alexander Hamilton. The hand-written draft is in the Library of Congress, and is clearly in Hamilton's handwriting, not Washington's. :-)

Ok ... And just what are you saying???

All Presidents write all their own speech's? Except Washington...

Or that Some Presidents have their speech's written by other people?

Or that President George Washington was a dupe for Hamilton and just had to read words that he (Washington) did not believe, because they were written for him by Hamilton the man that was Washington's Aide and Chief of Staff in the Continental Army composing many of Washington's correspondences ...and that very year appointed Sec Of the Treasury?

So sorry all you did was prove that every President since # 1 has had speech writers...

Now, Washington was President for eight years, and yet, only two Thanksgiving proclamations were issued. What happened to the other six?

Does that change the the stated purpose of the creation of the Holiday? A Day of Prayer and Thanks to Almighty God? Which ever God you as an individual choose to worship?

if we had a Muslim President (regardless of likelihood, under the Constitution, it is feasible), would he/she be required to give thanks to the Christian God?

Where in Washington's proclamation did it reference to the "Christian God" ? Why can not people Left or Right understand God when used in government speak is a generic term ... It refers to your God or Goddess just as much as my Jesus Christ... To Thank ones God or Goddess singular or plural ...

But as a side note... Did not American Presidents (even GWB) hold celebrations within the White House to celebrate Muslim Holidays... Just something to think about!

Ill close with a comment to this and then (come back and address you other post)

But you have successfully proved two things: 1) The various Presidents have generally addressed the majority of their constituents, and 2) The majority happened to be Christian.

But that is still not proof that the US is a Christian Nation. :-)

I for one do not think we live in a Christian Nation... We live in a tolerant to religious freedom Nation ....that happens to be predominately Christian...

I am with Jefferson on this one... I don't care if you have 1 God or several Gods or no God at all... My rights end where yours begin... But don't try to limit my right to express my beliefs be cause you find them OFFENSIVE ... And I fear Political Correctness is the vehicle to silence people...

We as Americans have no right not to be offended...

Cornhusker4Palin maybe you should read the bold text in my post above also.

I doubt that he will...

....It isn't allowed.

First ..Please except my apology I did not intend to ignore you...

Fair enough. No harm, no foul.

Well, look at that. Washington made it a point to mention that he was giving the speech at the request of Congress, and not by his own volition. Imagine that.

Or I could look at it as ...He was demonstrating the support of Congress... Could I not...with the support of and not ONLY one his own volition..Thus not pressing his personal beliefs on the citizenry.. Just another way to look at the very same thing!

You can see it how you wish, but it seems to be making quite a stretch. Remember, for the most part, Washington hadn't even written it.

Isn't it interesting that this portion should be retained in quotes? As if to emphasize that he is quoting someone else, and not using his own words.

Well I am sure you will as you always do provide proof ...

Proof? That a portion of the speech was retained in quotes? I believe you've already provided that. Anything beyond that is purely suggestive.

You do know that Washington did not actually write this speech, right? The credit belongs to Alexander Hamilton. The hand-written draft is in the Library of Congress, and is clearly in Hamilton's handwriting, not Washington's. :-)

Ok ... And just what are you saying??? All Presidents write all their own speech's? Except Washington... Or that Some Presidents have their speech's written by other people?

I'm saying that if you want to credit a person with having said something, be sure to quote the person who actually said it. More than half your argument draws its credibility from its claimed source: George Washington.

Or that President George Washington was a dupe for Hamilton and just had to read words that he (Washington) did not believe,

Oh, I wouldn't go quite that far. Washington had proved himself a principled man on more than one occasion. I doubt he would recite anything to which he was utterly opposed. Nonetheless, the difference between a speech he was willing to read (the first), and a speech written by his own hand (the second) seems quite significant.

So sorry all you did was prove that every President since # 1 has had speech writers...

And that the words were not that of Washington. Given his choice, he put far more emphasis on thankfulness, and far less on the specifics of whom to thank.

Now, Washington was President for eight years, and yet, only two Thanksgiving proclamations were issued. What happened to the other six?

Does that change the the stated purpose of the creation of the Holiday?

Now you're hedging on a strawman argument. Even at that point in history, there had been a harvest festival of one form or another, to celebrate bountiful harvests, as far back as people could remember. The stories of the Pilgrims first Thanksgiving added to those customs and traditions. A Presidential proclamation was simply another addition. There is not writ, nor claim, nor story of any kind, at that time, of the U.S. having created a new or different holiday apart from that which had already been celebrated for centuries.

A Day of Prayer and Thanks to Almighty God? Which ever God you as an individual choose to worship?

Really? And what of Atheists? Do they not count as Americans? Are they excluded from this proclamation?

if we had a Muslim President (regardless of likelihood, under the Constitution, it is feasible), would he/she be required to give thanks to the Christian God?

Where in Washington's proclamation did it reference to the "Christian God" ?

Where in Washington's proclamation did it acknowledge Atheist Americans?

NOW answer the question: If we had a Muslim President, would he/she be allowed to "Praise Allah" in his/her Thanksgiving proclamation?

Why can not people Left or Right understand God when used in government speak is a generic term

Because it's just not that simple. There are many more differences between some religions than the name of Deity. In some religions, to relegate Deity to a "generic" is, in itself, tantamount to blasphemy.

... It refers to your God or Goddess just as much as my Jesus Christ...

No, it cannot.

But as a side note...

No. please finish answering questions before moving on to new subjects.

But that is still not proof that the US is a Christian Nation. :-)

I for one do not think we live in a Christian Nation...

That is well.

I am with Jefferson on this one... I don't care if you have 1 God or several Gods or no God at all... My rights end where yours begin... But don't try to limit my right to express my beliefs be cause you find them OFFENSIVE

Now where did I ever say that such was offensive? I simply oppose any implication that the government, in any way, sanctioned, promoted, or otherwise endorsed religion over irreligion.

... And I fear Political Correctness is the vehicle to silence people...

Not at all. I have no need to silence people. But nothing in the U.S. Constitution, or laws of the land, give you or anyone else the right to demand that the U.S. government support or promote your beliefs for you. The government, as a whole, has a constitutional obligation to remain absolutely neutral in matters of religion.

Regards

NOW answer the question: If we had a Muslim President, would he/she be allowed to "Praise Allah" in his/her Thanksgiving proclamation?

I believe I answered that a reference to "God" is inclusive to Allah as well! So in fact they did "Praise Allah"

But, as you being a Pagan... I find it interesting that you use Islam as an example... And Not your own Beliefs ?

Could it be because it is more controversial?

Because it's just not that simple. There are many more differences between some religions than the name of Deity. In some religions, to relegate Deity to a "generic" is, in itself, tantamount to blasphemy.

Lets be clear the Term "GOD" is a generally excepted term in English in America to mean all inclusive... And being we are talking about in America and a word delivered in English... I believe it applies to this issue in the commonly accepted way it is used !

In America ask a Muslim who or what is the name of their God and they will say Allah...

Its understood! God is the individuals vision of a Superior being.. What ever it may be!

No. please finish answering questions before moving on to new subjects.

OK done....

Oh I don't know since the every first Thanksgiving message by Our Nation 1st President George Washington...Maybe? You ever read the First Thanksgiving address?

It is not mandatory that a president include God in a speech.We are not a Theocracy....yet. But more important Obama did mention God in his proclamation, as I believe was mentioned in a prior post.

As we gather in our communities and in our homes, around the table or near the hearth, we give thanks to each other and to God for the many kindnesses and comforts that grace our lives. Let us pause to recount the simple gifts that sustain us, and resolve to pay them forward in the year to come.

Just another failed lame attempt from the right to attack the president. Why doesn't the right ask Newt about his hypocritical attempt to connect to the religious right, for votes? In other words why doesn't the righteous wingers clean up their own sinful back yards before they stare down their crooked noses and point fingers at everyone else?

I believe I answered that a reference to "God" is inclusive to Allah as well!

Yes you did. But that does not answer my question: If the President were Muslim, would he/she be allowed to say, "Praise Allah...?" You know, to "say?" To "speak literally?" To "articulate?"

But, as you being a Pagan... I find it interesting that you use Islam as an example... And Not your own Beliefs ?

My beliefs are no more or less pertinent than the beliefs of another.

Could it be because it is more controversial?

No ... it ... could ... be ... because ... it's ... the ... second ... largest ... religion. Hellooo?

Lets be clear the Term "GOD" is a generally excepted term in English in America to mean all inclusive...

Soooo, I should be compelled to adjust my religious beliefs and concept of Deity to suit English context and grammar?

I believe it applies to this issue in the commonly accepted way it is used !

You are to qualified to dictate to me what is the proper way to regard, or commune with, my Deity.

In America ask a Muslim who or what is the name of their God and they will say Allah...

Or they might say Ar-Rahmān, Ar-Rahīm, Al-Malik, Al-Quddūs, As-Salām, Al-Mu'min, or any of the other 99 names a Muslim has for Deity. The point is, it's not for you to decide.

Its understood! God is the individuals vision of a Superior being.. What ever it may be!

Really? And how do Atheists fit into all of this? Are they to be excluded from this American tradition? Or are they simply not allowed to thank good fortune and hard work for their blessings? Or, will you demand they must acknowledge a Deity against their personal beliefs?

Regards

It all boils down to this...if he is pissing off the right wing fundamentalist christian nation advocates then he must be doing something right.

I'm wondering why does Obama, or anybody else for that matter, need to thank god? Is GOD feeling insecure and unappreciated all of a sudden? Is GOD really a...Teabagger?

I think GOD will take any praise and recognition better, when offered on a PERSONAL LEVEL! Ya know,one on one; not some hypocritical public annoncement, to appease the Right wingers...

"As we gather in our communities and in our homes, around the table or near the hearth, we give thanks to each other and to God for the many kindnesses and comforts that grace our lives. Let us pause to recount the simple gifts that sustain us, and resolve to pay them forward in the year to come," Obama wrote.

So basically the right-wingers are a bunch of lying @!$%#s when it comes to *anything* President Obama does, again.

Did Republicans and the religious right,thank God when they vote against helping people in need?

Have they thanked God that many will suffer without health insurance because they can't afford it, and you can?

Do they thank God when they vote to take away unemployment compensation during Christmas holidays so they can keep their tax breaks?

Did they thank God that they got rid of public tv and radio funding so that poor kids can't watch Sesame Street unless someone donates to keep it going?

Did they thank God that they are rich with food on the table,and not like them(poor)?

Will they even thank God when Obama brings the troops home?

Will they ever thank God that Obama got Osama, and Muammar?

Did they thank God that the budget deal went nowhere so they can be elected,even though the American people are suffering?Did they thank God for that?

How about the little children that will suffer because of their selfish actions.

The answer is NO, just like it's been.

I'm a progressive Democrat and a Christian, (same thing really), and my family gives thanks to God for our food (and ask for his blessings for our family and friends) everytime we sit down at the diiner table. This Thanksgiving we ate at a fancy restaurant, and in the bustle of going to the buffet table in pairs, forgot to pray. I don't believe we will lose the grace of God for this omission, and neither will our publically professed Christian president. He shows his faith in way he reaches out to care for the needy, in his exemplary personal life as a father and a husband, in his attempts to compromise with those who oppose his policies, his diplomatic inclusiveness, and the way he is trying to help average Americans by pushing a jobs bill to repair the roads and bridges, and bring new jobs. Right wing haters could learn a lot from President Obama about what it means to be a Christian.

ldj:

Is GOD feeling insecure and unappreciated all of a sudden?

Might be why he's not returning our calls.

glo

excellent post.

@#2.5

Last I heard,god helps those that help themselves! A simple solution might be; next time you get a call,PICK UP! Too many people failed to take the call in 2010. Remember that shellacking at the hands of 32% voter turnout; of which 17% were Teabaggers.Simple solution.......VOTE

ldj:

Always.

@ demmie #2.3 and glo #2.4...

i agree 100%. huge applause for both of your comments!